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Dkp or roll?

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#14259331 Dec 02, 2019 at 07:54 PM
2 Posts
Hey!

I believe the current loot system is highly dysfuctional and we should consider implementing a DKP system. As we have cleared all the current content I believe failing to do so will eventually hurt the guild as a whole.

Here is why:

1. Players should be incentivised to attend raid even though they won't get any gear (i.e they got t2 head from onyxia already or they have already recived both the class item and non-class item for this week).
2. Gear will be more evenly spread out so people wont lose out on gear to people who already have epics (i.e replacing their t1 legs for t2 legs) when other players are still using greens.
3. DKP will incentivise people to attend as often as possible.
4. Incentivise people to continue raiding when they reach bis gear in order to prepare for phase 3. Players who have bis gear are those who are the most needed in raids.
5. As I see it now, people are rolling on any minor upgrade as gear is scarce.

I belive DKP is a more fair system than the loot system we are currently using and will be helpful to the guild as a whole as we get to exploit the gearupgrades as much as possible.

Best Regards
Roosevelt.
+4
#14262892 Dec 08, 2019 at 04:21 PM
3 Posts
Hey all,

Some people know my 2 cents and others do not, i like to share my view on this :)

So here goes:

There is no perfect system for da l00t. Never has been and never will be. We are all together here in a big guild and having lots of people means having lots of different opinions (thank god!).

Personally i like the current loot system, i also liked loot council & i can also see the advantages in having a DKP system. We all have our preference and the forum is a good place to talk and think about it. In the end its the GM, RL & officers that decide what to do and i firmly believe that this is best for all troops.

DKP vs current system, at the moment i do not believe DKP is 'a more fair system' the our current one. I think Roosevelt's points are valid and invalid at the same time for a lot of players.
1. i like raiding and have no need to be incentivised to attend (Ony can only give me more bags, and getting 2 pieces of loot in 1 lockout isnt happening a lot anyway)
2. Gear will be spread evenly now as well, bracers/belts/bosses on farm. With DKP many players will be hoarding DKP for that 1 item while othere will be at low DKP (the ones that do not have a lot off or zero epics atm).
3. This can be counterproductive as well, some players can raid 3 days a week while other can barely make 1 day a week because of the days we play.
4. Ofc i agree on the 2nd part, i think 99,99% of the players do! The first part see point 3.
5. This is not getting any less with DKP i can tell you! I am still rolling my ass of for that Belt which isnt a that big of an improvement.

And above all, if we would implement DKP now... i think i would be very unfair to the people that have been unlucky with rolls. I am the lucky owner of 7 epics and i would not have to spent DKP on a lot of items that drop while others will go 'all in' and have zero DKP.

TL:DR
A lot of players =/= a lot of opinions
Trust our officers to do whats right for the Guild

Glimmerman

ps. ofc if those leading bitches are wrong, tell m that! :p
+2
#14263189 Dec 08, 2019 at 10:03 PM
2 Posts
I appreciate the input!

However, I mostly disagree.

From your comment you seem to view the DKP system solely from your point of view. You may be content with raiding for the sake of raiding alone, but that might not apply to the majority of the guild. This will only increase as we continue to run MC and Onyxia over and over again until phase three comes out. Humans are naturally motivated by rewards, and by implementing a DKP system everybody will be rewarded during the raid whether or not they get an item as they could always spend their DKP later.

I agree that raiding for the sake of raiding is fun, but before I finally got an item this week, I felt how frustrating it was raiding three times per week for a month without getting anything. Being chronically unlucky can really demoralize someone.

As for attendance I think it is perfectly fair that someone who raids three times a week should have a better chance of getting a sought-after item in contrast to someone who shows up once every other week who happens to luck out on a roll. In principle players who can’t attend raids often will get fewer items anyway, but our current system even encourages low attendance as there is a set cap on items per week. People who cant attend often will get something eventually, but the most wont be first priority for the most desired items.

As for bracers or belts I think these should be given to people without losing DKP if people are not willing to spend DKP on them.

Without naming names, I have already spoken to somebody in the guild who mentioned that they likely won’t be coming tomorrow because they have a very low chance of getting something from Onyxia.


+1
#14263790 Dec 09, 2019 at 06:43 PM · Edited 20 hours ago
Officers!
17 Posts
Well, as glimmer already said no loot system is perfect.
And DKP has its downsides aswell, I can go into detail about that, if you want, but the most obvious one would be that it's a big disadvantage for people who come as new players into the raid group and as long as we don't have a steady raid team we kinda depend on people to join.
If they can't get any loot, why would they join. Basically that's the same problem that you are describing in another system. However I don't want to encourage loot fixated behaviour tbh.
Raiding should be a fun guild group activity and loot should be the bonus in my opinion. I for one don't mind not getting loot, since I know every piece that I don't get, helps the raid anyways. Of course I can't or we can't expect the same mindset for everybody. It's sad if people don't want to attend only because they can't expect loot, which also means they don't really want to help others to get their gear and that is quite selfish.

I see your point in giving people advantages on loot, if they are regular raiders, well prepared or just active in any way. However I don't think we can implement a system like this for now.
+2
#14263868 Dec 09, 2019 at 09:26 PM
11 Posts
May i suggest a different approach than DKP ??

With 40 people raiding, 10 bosses of 2+ items, and some drops on trash and 4+ on Onyxia two times a week. we get

around 30 drops a week + trash drops.

what if we put ALL the raiders name randomly on a list.
Lets say it ends up like this:

1. Glimmer
2. Haylinn
3. Healing
4. Lizeta
5. Janwarlock
6. Hawkon
.
.
.
50. Nodiem
When the boss go down, a Spellcaster cape drops, then Glimmer pass, Haylinn pass and Healing accepts. he then moves to the bottom of the list in this scenario 50th. all below Healing on 3rd moves up one spot.

And then, when the raid is over people keep their spot in the line. and when the next raid starts, the people attending will move up so they cover 1-40th place in the same order as the raid ended..

makes sense ?.. that way all will get loot, and those who attend will profit a bit more.
+1
#14264308 Dec 10, 2019 at 03:01 PM · Edited 1 minute ago
Officers!
17 Posts
I like the idea, Nodiem, even though that would mean that someone has to keep track of this and generate this list which also can lead to problems, because some will get really low on it and will have to wait for their turn some time.
The time for loot distribution would increase drastically, because everyone up from the list has to pass on every item until someone needs the item. And then the ranking changes for many people. With discord it's a bit easier to keep track of for everyone on which rank everyone is on, since we could update the list in discord chat, but it's a lot more work for the master looter..
The problem with people not attending because they are not likely to get any loot would persist though, especially for our Onyxia raid.


Edit: Plus it actually benefits people who are less attending because they will move up the list automatically since everyone who gets any loot will drop down the list. So regulars will stay low on the list while the non-regular raiders will get on top, attend a raid, get loot and won't join for the next week which will get them up in the ranking on the list.
So... actually not really a positive solution.
+0
#14264404 Dec 10, 2019 at 07:23 PM
11 Posts
#14264308 Philos wrote:

I like the idea, Nodiem, even though that would mean that someone has to keep track of this and generate this list which also can lead to problems, because some will get really low on it and will have to wait for their turn some time.
The time for loot distribution would increase drastically, because everyone up from the list has to pass on every item until someone needs the item. And then the ranking changes for many people. With discord it's a bit easier to keep track of for everyone on which rank everyone is on, since we could update the list in discord chat, but it's a lot more work for the master looter..
The problem with people not attending because they are not likely to get any loot would persist though, especially for our Onyxia raid.


Edit: Plus it actually benefits people who are less attending because they will move up the list automatically since everyone who gets any loot will drop down the list. So regulars will stay low on the list while the non-regular raiders will get on top, attend a raid, get loot and won't join for the next week which will get them up in the ranking on the list.
So... actually not really a positive solution.




1. It can all be managed with an Excel Sheet. And people don't need to know who is where on the list, as long as the lootmaster follow the list, they will claim up.

2. If people only raid for gear, and not for the fun of it, the guild in general and for other to get gear then.... i for one don't think people should raid.
I want to get gear, but i don't raid for the gear.

3. It is true that a dedicated Lootmaster is required, but in this way, people wont need to roll, since it is offered according to the list. So if the lootmaster just links all the loot after boss is dead,, all 39 can continue and 1 lootmaster stays behind (less time wasted).

4. Well it doesn't punish those who dont raid, but reward those who do.
If you dont attend the raid, you cant move up the lootladder. Say you are 28th BUT you dont attend, when the raid is over, you are still 28th but the people in raid switch position. So you cant just be 50th, wait 5 raid and be 2nd on the ladder list, only if you attend.
+0
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